"un-English"....!!!

[Iqbal Tamimi]

"un-English"....!!!
By Iqbal Tamimi
2/2/2008

The Daily Telegraph published today another title which incites animosities in my opinion. The title says ‘Religions collide under the dreaming spires’ ... the content has nothing to do with religion; it’s all about some people’s personal preferences upon their own understanding of religion. I can assure the Independent that religions are not colliding, its people’s views. I hope they can choose more sensitive words from their rich dictionary; we do not need any more divisions between people of one society.

One point in the argument attracted my attention, I quote the newspaper saying (Charlie Cleverly, the rector of St Aldates Church, said allowing the broadcast of a call to prayer is "un-English").... well, do you want us to understand that Mr Cheverly’s point of view is built on religious grounds?
Jesus Christ himself was not English, and all his actions and life style was un-English’.. Are you going to turn him away because of his ‘un-English’ life style? Does that mean you want to wipe from UK anything upon this argument should it be un- English? Including schools of Art, Literature.... Would English Tea time be considered English or not? After all this country can’t plant its own tea, it was imported with all its rituals from another civilization. Are you going to ban curries for it is un-English?
I think you know the answers, some people like to pick and chose what they like and what they don’t, and what a better way to squeeze religion into it to segregate the community further, and focus on minor things instead of fixing bigger issues like health and education. I fail to understand such argument, are you going to ban aeroplanes, music, people coughing, calling for trains...? Or you are only targeting certain communities to force them out of their life time achievements because according to you they behave in an un-English way!!! Don’t you think that such remark is RACIST. And it contradicts the political traditions of a democratic society built upon respect.
Can you please issue a list of what is English and what is not, do we have to take such criteria seriously in an era of globalization, and have you thought how such ideas might affect English people working in other countries should such countries want to adopt a similar attitude!

The link for the article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=3CDSBIXG431JZ...

PS I have sent a copy to the daily Telegraph

[mary rizzo]

Of course saying that Muslim prayers are Un-English is racist!!!
This has nothing to do with ecumenicism or even with understanding what prayers mean to persons on an individual level. The last time I said a prayer was when I thought I was dying (this shows how religious I am!) but it also showed me that prayer is such a personal thing, and it can't be judged by others.

He is using that statement for political reasons, and let's hope people can see through it the way you have!!!

[Iqbal Tamimi]

I don't know Mary why they make such a big deal about relgious related issues, since it is only a choice, like what kind of music you like to hear, or what kind of clothes you prefer to wear..!! Besides I did not see much haraessment for other beliefs even though UK is full of people of different backgrounds.

[mary rizzo]

Because they use religion as an irrational instrument that "brainwashes". In many instances it may be, but that is true for every religion on earth. So, to find an "us against them" thing that can't be rationally "argued" helps to distinguish those of a different religion as being outsiders. And the Church of England is very nationalist, straight from the name on down. There is also the idea that the Muslim religion is ethnically based and means that it is not a matter of choice, those who fear the diminishing "white" population look at it as a threat.

People have to see this instrumental use, but they generally don't! And this is true as well with many secular people. I know those who promote "Skepticism" especially against Muslims, and thrive on the Muslims who have made apotheosis as their banner. Many of these people are active in the "peace" movement. They have also made excuses as to why the Hamas is responsible for the suffering of Gaza!!! Well, if it was the Hamas who brought down a wall in Rafah, they are the only ones who understand the needs of their people and address them in a concrete way. Religious or not, they make positive change happen. They should be respected!

I believe that if one is truly humanist, one accepts private belief, in fact, one tries to learn about it, understand it and see it as enrichment of cultural diversity, and does not try to impose belief on anyone else. Our Lance, for instance, truly loves and respects the beliefs of others, and does not put them down. It is the combination of religion and politics that can be damaging, but we have to understand why it exists, and if it allows the diversity of other religions or no religion. The level of tolerance and acceptance is how things should be judged.

I am so glad you follow these deceptive articles and respond to them! I hope they publish you!!!!

[Kinasator]

Sorry Ms Tamimi to disagree. Although I am a British Muslim, I feel that it is un-English to broadcast Azan. To argue for that point, one has to be a supporter of globilisation. However, globilisation goes two-ways because to argue that you need all the religious freedom you are in theory allowed to, then Muslim countries have to allow that freedom to those who seek it in return. Unfortunately this is happening as we speak. Just visit any gulf country and see the invasion of the Starbuks generation. Absolutely no character but a hideous mutation that is neither arabs or westerners. Therefore, until muslims are again culturally strong I feel that globilisation is a harmful thing to them!

[Mark Griffin]

Whatever is or was "English" is fast disappearing and you should understand it causes a great deal of anguish to a lot of very nice, kind, gentle people. Mind you, it also outrages a lot of bigots and racists, but I don't care about their feelings so much! There used to be an "ideal" England, I'm sure many of your readers from abroad can identify with this, how many of them had fond images of what life in Britain would be like, and how many of them have been severely disappointed by the reality? If you are disappointed, imagine how disappointed we natives are! Britain used to be a pleasant land to live in, but we have lost so much.

How many of your readers are familiar with phrases like "An English promise"? What value is there in an Englishman's promise today when our government deceives, cheats and even lies to its own people? What value is sportsmanship when drunken hooligans rampage through the streets showing their "support" for their team or when sportsmen commit "professional fouls"? What value has traditional English courtesy when immigrants coming to our shores in search of a peaceful haven and a new life are treated with suspicion or even hatred? So please understand, Iqbal, there are a lot of us who are very, very sad about the way our country is going.

There are people trying to cling to an outmoded image of what England was like, and what "Englishness" means. To be honest, I wish we could turn the clock back to a nobler, more civilised era. Would I like to hear church bells ringing out on a Sunday morning, and watch white-dressed cricketers on the village green, with children playing care-free in the streets? Of course. Or am I happy with the image of inner city decay, kids collecting asbos as a sign of street cred, muggers free to rob us and not be brought to law, etc etc etc.? I could just go on. Have some pity for us, Iqbal, to some people this is just another small piece of "old England" that is being taken away from them.

The proposal doesn't bother me at all, however. I have lived in Moslem countries, I have heard the call to prayer, five times a day. The "solution" to me is simple enough, you just sleep through it, like many Moslems I know. Of course if the mosque in Oxford would like to find a middle way, a way that works in a country that likes tradition, they could do it traditionally, use a live call, by a real human, without amplification and no recordings. In time, people will get used to it, and in time, as you say, what is "English" will adapt and we'll all be happy with it. What I don't think we want, and I think you have the same view, is that this should be turned into a Moslem versus Christian issue. It is not.

[Iqbal Tamimi]

Thank you Mark for sharing with us your point of view, I guess you remembered how I was attacked fiercely when started my blog on the Telegraph, hoping this is a good way to interact and exchange views and ideas. And I guess you remeber how I thought England would look like because all I knew about England was the beautiful things I have been readin in books, or filtered TV programmes, to tell you the truth I myself prefer that England, where men used to pull the chair for the ladies, and as I told you before men used to wear hats and used them to show gestures of respect. I guess we all dream of that perioud when English used to represent the best of everything, from punctuality to manufacturing up to the best of standards. But relegion was never an issue as it is now.

[Iqbal Tamimi]

Dear Kenasator, I never said that I agree with the Adan call to be through loudspeakers, we all know in Islam that this was initiated 1400 years ago to remind people of the time for prayers, they did not have alarm clocks, nor did they have charts on computers to tell them th changing time of prayer from one day to another according to the Sun position or location. Now with all these technologies you can overcomesuch thing. Some people hang to certain habits as part of nostarlgia I guess.
I believe if you are keen so much about your praying time, you will find a way to remember, but still the argument was about being ' un - English' which I felt it is a racist remark.

[Mark Griffin]

> but still the argument was about being ' un - English' which I felt it is a racist remark.

I feel that where a word usage has two or more possibilities it is important to then consider the intention of those using the word. I was trying to suggest this usage wasn't intended to be racist. For example, consider the phrase "un-American" as used in the hearings in America in the Fifties. That was not racist, it was a witch-hunt against communism. It would be a stretch to say it was racist against Russians. So "un-English" could be racist, but in this case I don't believe that was the intention behind it.

[Iqbal Tamimi]

Don't you think that he implies that un- English is a negative thing?? and that things should be English? If so what does that mean?? would it mean eliminate anything which does not look English?

[Mark Griffin]

> Don't you think that he implies that un- English is a negative thing??

Yes.

> and that things should be English?

Should fit in with the English character.

> If so what does that mean?? would it mean eliminate anything which does not look English?

Here's an example. I wrote about white-dressed cricketers playing on the village green. I for one regret the introduction of coloured outfits for cricket players. To me it is just symbolic of a lot of changes that have spoiled the game for me, such as unsporting behaviour to win a match at any cost. I believe coloured outfits were introduced by Kerry Packer, an Australian, many years ago when he was trying to build a television sports empire and waned the game to look better on tv. Now just because I think that non-white cricket kits are un-English doesn't mean I hate Australians and am therefore a racist.

I do not need to tell you about racism! But I would suggest that the racist thugs who go after you are not doing it because they disapprove of your choice of clothing. So I think that non-white cricket clothes are un-English and yes I mean that to be negative. But as I tried to say above, un-English or un-American is not necessarily a racist thing, you know lots of words in the English language have several meanings and it depends on what the person using the phrase intended.

Did you see the photos in the Telegraph just before Christmas of the shopping centre in Amman? With the Christmas decorations? Is that un-Arabic? I would say it was, I would say it didn't fit in with the traditional culture of the Arab world. If any Jordanians were upset about it, I wouldn't be surprised.

But in this sense, un-Arabic doesn't mean anti-Arabic, and likewise un-English doesn't mean anti-English.

Let's try another, perhaps more enjoyable approach. I would be very interested to learn from you what you consider good Palestinian traditions. What aspects of the Palestine you remember from your youth do you fondly remember, and miss today? Habits, customs, traditions, sights and sounds?

[Iqbal Tamimi]

Come onnnnnnnnn, I came from Jordan, I lived there for a long time, we celebrated Christmas better than you do in UK. You will see every where decorations in windows, in shops, in the streets. I am a Muslim but because my children used to see all those beautifl decorations, I had to buy them decorations and lights that goes on and off to make them feel happy like the rest of the mean stream. It seems you do not know much about the rest of the Arab countries. Maybe this is the reson people judge us wrong, because all they know comes from the newspapers and TVs which might not be telling the whole truth.

[Mark Griffin]

Well you could be right about me. :-) My last time abroad was in Abu Dhabi where they put up streets lights and decorations to celebrate Sheik Zayed's accession to the throne, but they were always anxious to take them down quickly because it was in December and they didn't want it to look like they were Christmas decorations. I have never been to Jordan though.

However, you are entirely right about the general level of knowledge, and to a large extent my own current knowledge now, about the Arab world coming through newspapers and the television. That is a serious problem.

So, fair comment. Anyway, sorry, I thought you had said elsewhere that you were from Palestine. My mistake.